Texas X Riders
Main Area => General Discussion => Topic started by: rwrogers on June 25, 2008, 08:20:19 AM
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I've parked on the sidewalk or up by the doors at different stores without problem. I started doing this after almost getting hit by a car, while parked in a parking spot, because the car thought it was an empty spot and didn't see me. I've parked up by the door, on the sidewalk, etc. for years now and have seen many others do it. I have a buddy that has just got a bike and is a little skittish about parking there thinking he's going to get a ticket. I told him that first of all, its private property so he can't really get a ticket, the worst that could happen is the tell him to move or tow his bike.
My question is, is this correct? What is the legality of parking on the sidewalk up by the door of a store, say like Wal-Mart or Best Buy? When I go to either of those stores, I usually park up by the door, beside the building. Is this legal, just over looked, accepted, etc.?
Thanks,
Richard
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I would think as long as your not in a fire zone your okay. I do it all the time too. Never knew for sure though.
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In general the only way you can get a ticket is by parking in a fire zone, handicap spot, or blocking access.
I park on the sidewalk or in an area that will not impede the other patrons.
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Not just "in" a handicap spot, I got one once for being parked in the striped zone near a handicap zone....not beside it, but in front of the nose end of the vehicle, where I couldn't block them loading or unloading the van. I thought about taking it to court, but just paid it. I don't know if it would have stood up in court. This was at a Wal mart in Texarkana.
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If an unattended child is ever hurt or disfigured from touching your tail pipes...and you are parked in an area that is considered pedestrian and not vehicular such as a sidewalk vs a parking space or driveway area...then you will be very vulnerable to a civil suit...and easily demonized by a jury.
Most of the population thinks that you are a fool with poor judgement for being on a bike in the first place. (I ride) If an injury ever results as a consequence of what could be considered "neglect" from your actions as a motorcycle rider, you will be considered a wanton monster....in all liklihood.
I play tennis with a couple of attorneys. Sitting around afterwards with drinks...I get to hear how they think. It's un-pretty.
Moral of the story: Be careful where you put your bike when the pipes are hot and be certain that it is stable on the kickstand. I try to find places close to the door but out of pedestrian paths...in other words, some little area of parking lot or driveway. 8) A place where some unattended kid may pull the bike over on themselves but the bike has every right to be there. 8)
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You will get a ticket if you are on a side walk... (I did) if you do get the ticket is $35.00 if you happen to see the cop and aproach him, he will tell you to move the bike, if this happends... make sure you roll the bike off the side walk, do not ride it, I was told that if you ride your bike off the side walk, that's another more expensive fine.
I was downtown Houston when I got the ticket... that may make a difference. I see guys parked all the time on the side walk at movie theaters, stores etc. for $35.00 I felt like I just paid for parking.
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The downtown sidewalk is in the R.O.W. which is municipal property and subject to ordinances. Interior Walmart parking lots and sidewalks are on private property. I don't know for certain but I don't think that they are subject to municipal fines. If there is an injury, everywhere comes under civil jurisdiction.
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The downtown sidewalk is in the R.O.W. which is municipal property and subject to ordinances. Interior Walmart parking lots and sidewalks are on private property. I don't know for certain but I don't think that they are subject to municipal fines. If there is an injury, everywhere comes under civil jurisdiction.
Which is surprising that Snake got a ticket. Police officers are not supposed to write tickets on private property unless asked by the business, (except fire zone). They usually don't go looking for that type of encounter. If at a Walmart, Academy, Lowes, or any other "BigBox" store, I usually look for the handicap stripes, or an unused area of the sidewalk. So far, I've never been questioned, but I watch where the pedestrians are, and if there's enough room for the handicapped. Use some common sense.
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Yeah, just think you cant get one. According to the cop that gave me that one, if you are in the striped area adjacent to the handicapped area, it is the same as being in the handicapped area. As preiously stated, I was not anywhere close to blocking access to a handicapped area, I was at the end of the "isle" towards Walmart, not blocking anyone. The cop said it was the same as.... he ticketed another bike besides mine that day there too. As I said, I didn't contest it, it didn't pose a mv threat to my insurance rates. ;D
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The striped area is part of the handicapped parking spot; it's for wheelchair access.
In many jurisdictions there are ordinances in place making parking on a sidewalk illegal. Your bike could be towed in some of those jurisdictions; it all depends on how the law is written.
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The downtown sidewalk is in the R.O.W. which is municipal property and subject to ordinances. Interior Walmart parking lots and sidewalks are on private property. I don't know for certain but I don't think that they are subject to municipal fines. If there is an injury, everywhere comes under civil jurisdiction.
Which is surprising that Snake got a ticket. Police officers are not supposed to write tickets on private property unless asked by the business, (except fire zone). They usually don't go looking for that type of encounter. If at a Walmart, Academy, Lowes, or any other "BigBox" store, I usually look for the handicap stripes, or an unused area of the sidewalk. So far, I've never been questioned, but I watch where the pedestrians are, and if there's enough room for the handicapped. Use some common sense.
I believe the following to be true but am not certain.
Municipalities and States may have their own Handicap ordinances but they are rooted in the federal "American with Disabilities Act" which supercedes anything that conflicts with it.
Handicapped spaces are required of all businesses by the ADA and they almost always occur on private property owned by the business that owns and uses the property. The feds probably grant special jurisdiction to local municipalities to write tickets to Snake when he is on the stripes.
It may be that the State is compelled by the feds pass mirror regulations in order to create a means of enforcement on private property in that state.
In the past when I have done commercial Architectural design, I had to follow ADA regulations that were overseen and inspected by a state agency.
I'm not sure of anything here, but if no one could ticket you for parking in handicap spaces on private property, the signs would be ignored.
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The striped area is part of the handicapped parking spot; it's for wheelchair access.
In many jurisdictions there are ordinances in place making parking on a sidewalk illegal. Your bike could be towed in some of those jurisdictions; it all depends on how the law is written.
I went to lunch at Hooters with a friend couple yrs ago and ended up being a $280 lunch as we both got ticketed by the handicap police for parking in the striped section of the handicap spot. As soon as we noticed them out there, we both went out and offered to move our bikes but still got tickets. We were told the striped sections were for wheelchair access as stated by Hipshot. Talk about an expensive lunch!!
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Did that help?
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now go pay your board dues ::)
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The downtown sidewalk is in the R.O.W. which is municipal property and subject to ordinances. Interior Walmart parking lots and sidewalks are on private property. I don't know for certain but I don't think that they are subject to municipal fines. If there is an injury, everywhere comes under civil jurisdiction.
Which is surprising that Snake got a ticket. Police officers are not supposed to write tickets on private property unless asked by the business, (except fire zone). They usually don't go looking for that type of encounter. If at a Walmart, Academy, Lowes, or any other "BigBox" store, I usually look for the handicap stripes, or an unused area of the sidewalk. So far, I've never been questioned, but I watch where the pedestrians are, and if there's enough room for the handicapped. Use some common sense.
I believe the following to be true but am not certain.
Municipalities and States may have their own Handicap ordinances but they are rooted in the federal "American with Disabilities Act" which supercedes anything that conflicts with it.
Handicapped spaces are required of all businesses by the ADA and they almost always occur on private property owned by the business that owns and uses the property. The feds probably grant special jurisdiction to local municipalities to write tickets to Snake when he is on the stripes.
It may be that the State is compelled by the feds pass mirror regulations in order to create a means of enforcement on private property in that state.
In the past when I have done commercial Architectural design, I had to follow ADA regulations that were overseen and inspected by a state agency.
I'm not sure of anything here, but if no one could ticket you for parking in handicap spaces on private property, the signs would be ignored.
ADA is a nightmare. I haven't research or compared but have been told that the Texas Architectural Barriers Standards are tougher than ADA. http://www.license.state.tx.us/ab/abtas.htm. These things are sort of like the Bible and a lot is left up to interpretation. Unfortunately, common sense hardly ever enters in to the equation. The city of Beaumont recently reviewed a plan and instructed me to relocate the 2 HC parking spaces to a safer location but 20 feet further from the entrance. After completion I got an ADA inspection and was told to put the HC spaces back where they were originally shown. This put the HC patron crossing a traffic lane. ::) The same inspector had told me a couple of months earlier that I could not locate a HC space where I wanted because the patron would have to cross a traffic lane. :'(
Anyway, it's been my experience that the HC laws are enforced in the areas where a complaining patron frequents.
Before I get flamed, I'm not against a HC persons having up front easy access and parking. I do have a problem with folks who get the placard and can get around better than me. Or the 15 HC spaces RIGHT UP FRONT and there are never more than two cars parked there at any given time.
I always look for a space by an island, light pole and such. I try to back in and I park at the end of the space so I can be seen by a person LOOKING for a space instead of where they have already started to park and then see the bike. There is just something about thinking that you have found a parking spot only to start in and then find a damn motorcycle parked there. >:( I always felt like if I parked on the sidewalk that I was subjecting myself to more azz wholes that might want to screw with the bike.
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Before I get flamed, I'm not against a HC persons having up front easy access and parking. I do have a problem with folks who get the placard and can get around better than me.
Dusty, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, because I was right there with you. Then my wife came down
with Fibromyalgia, a connective tissue disorder where your white blood cells can't tell the difference between good cells and
bad cells in the body so they attack them all, concentrating on your joints mainly. It comes with chronic fatigue syndrom and
feels like a bad case of rheumatoid arthritis. Similar to Lupus. The more she walks in a day, the more it hurts at the end of the
day. So most of the time it looks like she walks just fine, but she's trying to limit how much. I've had a few scrapes in the
parking lot about it. I try not to get upset with people because they just don't know. Those placards are issued only with
Doctor's orders and you must renew with Doctors orders when they expire. Not saying some folks don't abuse, of course they
do, but it's not always what you see that is the real story. Also keeps her from any lengthy rides with me... :( :(
Ride Safe.
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All the posted points are good ones, and basicly it depends on how much the ADA "police", and local law enforcement enforce the laws.
I think a simpler solution would be to take 2-3 spaces next to the handicap spaces, and stripe them square for motorcycles. You can put 4-5 bikes in the same space as 2 cars. Have a sign that says "motorcycles only", and if they're full you have to find a regular space.
With more and more people riding 2 wheels, state and local Architectural Boards should start factoring this in. That would solve some of the problems.
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RSWHITE Wrote:
"Dusty, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, because I was right there with you. Then my wife came down with Fibromyalgia."
Robert,
My heart goes out to your wife and you too, cause I know you don't like seeing her suffer. I saw a special about Fibromyalgia a while back. I forget a lot, but I remember that name. Very painful disease.
I hope she gets relief from it soon.
Thanks for pulling my cranium from my anal orfice. I'll start giving them the benefit of a doubt. ;) O0
Dusty
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Thanks for the kind words Dusty... She takes several meds that slow the
progress and manage the pain, but I'm afraid it's a life-time issue.
RW
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If you park on the sidewalk, you invite jerks. If you park in regular spaces, you invite idiots. There are a lot of idiots and a lot of jerks, so it's really just a personal preference as to which wheel you want to spin. :)
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Most parking lots also have some striped end caps that are not handicap spaces or even next to handicap spaces. This is were I try to park. Keeps the bike out in front for all to see. I figure helps prevent somebody from messing around with the VTX because so visible to everybody.
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I have to admit I usually park in those striped spaces whenever I can, even some that are right next to handicap spaces. But I always park as far away from the HC space as I can to give plenty of room for wheelchair access, etc. Of course, I've never gotten a ticket so far, and I've never really thought about it until reading this thread. If I do have to park in a space, I always back in and then pull the front of the bike up to the very end of the space so it can be seen better.