Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Morgan Buchanan]

Dusty... you offered to shake hands with an on duty officer while he was stopping you and he shook your hand?  Wow.  I'm a little stunned at that. 

Jim, what do you think?  I've seen LEO's explain to people why they don't shake hands, and as a martial arts guy and self defense instructor, I totally get it.  I'd never get withing grabbing distance if I can help it.

[hipshot]

Actually, I've shaken quite a few hands on traffic stops. HOWEVER, I've found that about 99 times out of 100, the person who wants to shake a cop's hand is a turd. They are often testing to see if the officer is PC and can be manipulated. I generally refuse while trying not to be TOO rude about it. Occasionally I can be persuaded to open up a fresh can of rudeness, and splash it all over them. And laugh.

Like Morgan said, you really don't want to get too close to an unknown or belligerent subject during an adversarial contact. You learn to read people, and each person handles contacts differently.

[Dusty]

Actually, I've shaken quite a few hands on traffic stops. HOWEVER, I've found that about 99 times out of 100, the person who wants to shake a cop's hand is a turd. They are often testing to see if the officer is PC and can be manipulated. I generally refuse while trying not to be TOO rude about it. Occasionally I can be persuaded to open up a fresh can of rudeness, and splash it all over them. And laugh.

Like Morgan said, you really don't want to get too close to an unknown or belligerent subject during an adversarial contact. You learn to read people, and each person handles contacts differently.

Being that I was still sitting strattled my bike and he was slightly behind me on my left side, he had the advantage on me. I never even thought about it in that manner. I had to reach over my left shoulder to shake hands with my right hand. My left hand had my wallet in it. I'm sure he read that I had already accepted that I had commited an offense and knew I was in the wrong. I'm ugly, but I don't think I look dangerous. Plus, I had three boxes of bolts bungied to the bike that I was trying to deliver to a job.
Had I been in my truck, I would have rolled my window down and placed both hands on the top of the steering wheel until the officer approached. When he ask for ID and insurance, I would have told him before reaching for my wallet, where it was and that I was going to reach for it with my left hand. My right hand would have remained on the steering wheel. Keep mind, that I am 54 and 300 lbs, sitting on a bike. I doubt very seriously that the fellow saw me as a threat. I have read and approved of a lot of your post Morgan and I don't know if you are LEO or not, but you sound a little paranoid. Maybe that's what martial arts tells you to be? I eat lunch with constables and officers all the time. They have a job to do and I respect that and try to convey that when I get stopped. I was wrong and admitted it up front. Maybe that's why he didn't feel threatened, and gave me a warning. I got stopped once in the Pan Handle for doing 91 in a 70. I told the officer...... if you think that's speeding I'm damn glad you didn't stop me one hill back when I was doing 120mph. I got a ticket on that one. 
Had I jumped off my bike and started ranting like an idiot, I doubt I would be typing this right now.

[Morgan Buchanan]

LOL  You know the Mongol culture doesn't have a word for paranoia because pretty much everyone IS out to get you.

I'm not paranoid, nor am I a LEO.  I have taught a lot of women's self defense classes.  Situational awareness is the first place you start in self defense.  It's a lot easier to defend yourself if you don't get in the situation in the first place.   I'll shake most anyone's hand when I meet them.  But a traffic stop isn't a meeting.  A lot of dangerous felons have been caught because they were pulled over at simple traffic stops.  I'm sure that what Jim says is very accurate... you get a feel and a read for people.  I think a lot of LEO's who won't shake hands think, "I can read people pretty darn good, and I'll be right about my instinct to trust someone 999 times out of 1000.  But I don't want my wife/loved one to get that call the 1000th time." or some such. Everyone has to live their life their own way.  I think that's just the rationale that some use, I'm not even suggesting it's right or best.  It just surprised me is all.

[VT-XS]

Looking back on my 55 years, I have concluded that snakes can be charmed and can also be charming.
In other words some of the nastiest, most sociopathic mofo's whom I've met had great people skills and were completely disarming.

Folks that proclaim themselves to be "people persons" and "never met a stranger" and so forth always trigger my radar immediately. Usually they are happy to be those things because it works for them not because of the intrinsic fullfillment.

IMO, you cannot infallibly size up a stranger and out of thousands the only one that matters is the one that hurt you.

A few years ago I was building houses in a neighborhood where there was an Iraeli builder putting them up also. He had a problem with the truth. After constant badgering, one day I told him I wanted him off my property and not to return. A few days later, he came up to me getting out of my truck. He said we should "put things behind us" and offered his hand.  I said, "what caused the sudden change of heart?" and wouldn't reach for his hand. He then slapped me on the chin with his other hand. I dropped a right hand in his left eye and he scurried off and called the cops telling em I started it all.  It's a good rule to make no physical contact with people in possibly adversarial circumstances.

ps..sorry Bill, If I was LEO and you wanted to shake my hand, I'd figure you immediately for playing me. Apparently you did such a sweet job and the LEO enjoyed it, so he gave you a warning ticket....lol 

[snake]

Looking back on my 55 years, I have concluded that snakes can be charmed and can also be charming.

LOL!

[Dusty]

Well, I'm definantly not a people person and I promise to never offer to shake a cops hand again. With just the one hand shake, I've already become a snake turd. No offense intended John. 

[hipshot]

What some of you are overlooking is that it's more than just appearances or manner that's involved. That cop may have just received a 'BOLO' on a person matching your description driving a vehicle like yours; he has no way of knowing whether you're that person or not. He's out there to enforce the law, not make friends, and while most of them would prefer to keep the contact as civil as possible, they are not shopping for a new best friend. Since that cop doesn't know any more about you than you do about him, he's not likely to step beyond the boundaries of grounds for a possible complaint. Getting overly friendly with violators can get you killed, and it can also get you complained on.

[Dusty]

What some of you are overlooking is that it's more than just appearances or manner that's involved. That cop may have just received a 'BOLO' on a person matching your description driving a vehicle like yours; he has no way of knowing whether you're that person or not. He's out there to enforce the law, not make friends, and while most of them would prefer to keep the contact as civil as possible, they are not shopping for a new best friend. Since that cop doesn't know any more about you than you do about him, he's not likely to step beyond the boundaries of grounds for a possible complaint. Getting overly friendly with violators can get you killed, and it can also get you complained on.

Jim, I guess he did hesitate a second when I stuck my hand out and that was my first time to ever attempt to shake hands with an officer except when I run into them at lunch. There seems to be a few that frequent the same eating establishments that I do and a couple of them have bikes. I guess he shook it because of the timeing in the conversation that I stuck my hand out. It was more of a, yep you are and yes I'm guilty type thing. No contest.

I framed the ticket, I never got a warning before. 

[hipshot]

Think of it like a used car salesman. When you walk into the dealership he's going to be your new best friend. Ask yourself, would he shake your hand and buddy up to you, promise you the moon in a silver platter in a chance encounter on the street? He wants something from you, and odds are he wouldn't treat you any more specially than anyone else he doesn't know in a chance encounter.

All too often, the cop who stops a violator gets (1.) a bunch of attitude (and even when you learn to accept it, it still gets old) or (2.) the violator sucks up like a whore. Additionally, like I said earlier, many of them will be looking into whether you can be manipulated, and will play the "injured citizen" if you don't allow them to manipulate you. You'd be surprised how many people try to get tickets dismissed because "the cop was rude to me." A lot of experienced traffic cops just try to keep a contact as professional and as brief as possible; that's the safest way to avoid assaults and complaints. Bill, the cop obviously read you as a good guy (ya fooled another one ) if he shook your hand. But don't feel slighted or insulted if the next one doesn't -- he probably has his own good reasons, and they have nothing to do with you personally.

[tom cat]

Last warning ticket, I got was from a State Trooper. When he got to the truck, He asked if I knew why he stopped me? I said to pay for that new Randal County jail they got passed in the sneak election. He got the giggles trying to write the ticket. I was doing 58 in a 55 what ever he was  really looking for I wasn't it. 

[cajun86]

I have a legal question. I am asking your opinion as an LEO. I realize that you are not a judge or jury, attorney, legal scholastician, etc....and I realize that it is impossible to be absolutely certain about anything in the law....but I hoped you could shed some light:

As I understand it, a person such as myself can have a loaded pistol in his vehicle without a CCL under the new provisions of the penal code. (castle doctrine)  Does that include bags on motorcycles?

Saturday September 1, 2007
 
Today's the day Texas laws passed during the 80th Legislature take effect, if they haven't already, and several new gun laws deserve Grits readers attention:

Legal, stowed weapons okay in vehicle
Reacting to Texas prosecutors who'd continued to arrest legal gun owners in spite of the Legislature's intent in a bill from 2005, this year the Texas Legislature set in stone the rights of legal gun owners to carry a weapon in their vehicle without violating the law. (Regular readers may recall The New York Times profiled the bill and discussed a public policy report I wrote on the subject.) The new statute says an individual cannot be charged with unlawfully carrying a weapon (UCW) in their personal vehicle unless:

the handgun is in plain view (not found as a result of a consent search),
the person is engaged in criminal activity other than traffic violations,
the person is legally disallowed from owning a weapon (e.g., past criminal convictions), or
the person's name is in the state of Texas' criminal street gang database.
Otherwise, if the weapon is concealed on your person or somewhere in the vehicle out of plain sight, and none of the other restrictions apply to you, it's now legal to carry a handgun in your car. N.b., even with the passage of this new law, the safest bet in Texas to avoid being hassled over your weapon is to get a concealed carry license. Then you're home free no matter what and don't have prosecutors sitting around thinking up reasons to apply exceptions to this new statute.

Changes to concealed carry statutes
Speaking of CCLs, holders of concealed handgun permits will only have to renew their permit every 10 years instead of five, as the law previously stood. In addition, the names of CCL permit holders will no longer be public records.

I'm fine with reducing the renewal requirement, but I think it may have been a strategic error for gun rights supporters to push for making CCL records closed. Having those lists public has allowed the media to doublecheck claims by gun rights opponents that concealed carry permit holders commit more gun crimes, and almost universally that's not the case. I've never heard of a burglar filing open records requests to identify targets - after all, that would leave a paper trail - but media analyses based on access to those records have helped assuage public fears over CCL carriers and paved the way for expanding Texas gun owners' rights. I'm not sure cloaking information about CCL holders in this case will assist the advance of liberty's cause.

Castle Doctrine
This bill changed less in Texas' statutes, which already protected homeowners who shot burglars and trespassers pretty strongly, than in other states where it has passed. San Marcos Police Chief Howard Williams said that even under the new law, a homeowner must "have an articulable fear for your safety.” That's still the case under the new statute.

Keep your gun in a a disaster
SB 112 actually took effect this spring, but it forbids law enforcement agencies from taking away people's guns in the aftermath of a natural disaster, reacting to police confiscation of weapons in post-Katrina New Orleans.
Labels: Guns

[jmdaniel]

Bill, from your described position on the bike, and the LEO being slightly behind you, I'm thinking that the officer got a nice shot of the ol' cleavage when you reached back and over your chest to shake his hand. Hell, I'm surprised you even got a warning ticket!   

Hey, I learned this kind of stuff watching CSI! 

[snake]

Bill, from your descibed position on the bike, and the LEO being slightly behind you, I'm thinking that the officer got a nice shot of the ol' cleavage when you reached back and over your chest to shake his hand. Hell, I'm surprised you even got a warning ticket!   

Hey, I learned this kind of stuff watching CSI! 

HMMM, THE COP FROM THE VILLAGE PEOPLE, MAYBE?

[Dusty]

Bill, from your descibed position on the bike, and the LEO being slightly behind you, I'm thinking that the officer got a nice shot of the ol' cleavage when you reached back and over your chest to shake his hand. Hell, I'm surprised you even got a warning ticket!   

Hey, I learned this kind of stuff watching CSI! 

I had on a Turtle Neck, I may be cheap, but I ain't easy.